Bountiful Figs

CyntheB wrote: ↑
~ Don't think 0F is a common winter temperature here. But it does happen and I need to plan for that.
~ Very interesting strategy to give the fig winter protection until it's trunk / branches are fist sized. Will plan on doing that with new trees I plant.

My container grown 'Peter's Honey' in CA never got quite that big. I protected it in winter when temps dropped below 28F, but eventually lost it to killing cold in the high teens. It was happy and produced figs regularly for several years, before it declined.

Really appreciate all the experiments you're doing, Alan, with cold protection. You and GregMartin may inspire me to grow more than one variety since I have the land to do so...

Our Peter's honey seems to be cold hardy enough for our climate. It will be in the ground for winter this year, last winter it was inside yet it already had no more than tip damage at noticeably colder than 28 degrees Fahrenheit this Autumn even though it was not dormant yet. Potted up figs will always be dwarfed, and if they are not a dwarf variety a pot could help kill them. A potted non dwarf fig needs to have it's roots pruned regularly to survive and like any other fruit tree if the pot is too small the pot could stress out the tree and kill it that is why old school Italian fig tree owners have planted their fig trees in a wooden barrel, and eventually the roots would go through the barrel in to the ground and become root bound in to the ground. I think that everyone should have at least two fig tree varieties and at least two pomegranate varieties. There are some varieties of fig tree that have survived NYC winters unprotected until the last two winters which the 2013 - 2014 winter killed most of them. I say that because they grew to be usually sizeable considering the climate there, that size kept them alive way beyond what a lot of people thought they could survive. At average we are about 10 - 15 degrees Fahrenheit warmer in the winter than NYC is. I am not sure about where you live yet here the freezing temps do not stay around anywhere near as long as they do in NYC. That is a very good thing as long as the ground does not freeze, or if there is no morning sun.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
Had thought I'd need a deeper soil bed for a permanent, in ground tree planting. Given how hard and rocky the native soil is here (previous owners did no gardening), my husband and I will be happy not to have to dig deeper!! LOL Pulling out rocks will be enough of a task.

There are people that say no matter what soil you have it's best to have a raised area.

If you have room to plant two, and if you have a good location that big then I suggest that you plant them right next to each other and make an even bigger walled up area, one wall instead of two, that way the roots of two trees could share the same area, giving them some more growing area.

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
Oh and by the way hot sun in Arizona is good for fig trees once they have adapted to the ground. Within a month after planting they should be able to take a lot of sun, they will not need protection from the sun. Fig trees can grow in deserts with little to no watering once they are old enough, although to be healthy and to produce well they do need to be watered once like every four days in dry hot weather once developed. and everyday when they are still young. When a fig tree has too little water the leaves start to curl up. It's best to water after the sun starts to cool down for the day, it would give the tree nice cooling relief at the coolest time of the day. If it's really hot outside then the water would make no difference during the day. The water would actually get hot!

CyntheB wrote: ↑
A neighbor planted a CA grown fig tree 'Brown Turkey' or 'Black Mission' late summer that was suffering leaf burn w/o sun protection. That's where my concern about our intense sun came from.

We're at a 5500ft elevation, so people and plants burn more easily here. Do you think it would be a good idea to paint the sun exposed bark with diluted white latex paint as is done in other hot fruit-growing regions?

Watering late in the day / early evening is an excellent strategy for arid climates. Used to do that in CA since we had a Mediterranean climate (no rain for 6 months).

A fig tree should never be planted in summer or in late summer. That always does a major number on the plant and it's leaves early spring is best, right after last chance of frost, yet where you used to live you probably did not have to worry about frost, if so then as soon as 70s are common highs would be the best time there, also I do not know the history of the tree the neighbour planted, if it was not used to full sun already that also would burn the leaves off any warm or hot time of the year. Fig trees need to be adapted to full sun slowly

I just looked it up you are at a mid elevation based up the highest point in Arizona which is Humphrey's Peak. Fig trees do great there. I see nothing written about painting fig trees there, about bark problems on fig trees, I see nothing about needing to shade them there. As long as you plant them as early in the year as you can without them getting hit by frost they should be fine. Fig trees exist in tropical places hotter than California in the summer, and with very bright sun and they do not shade them, and they do not protect their bark. At the most maybe the fig tree will be very stressed out for a few weeks, one of our fig trees planted in 2015 it had major heat stress, it had major leaf burn, the plant would have died if it was not yet adapted to the full sun. I was very worried about it, and weeks later it was one of the strongest growers out of our 6 in ground fig trees even though the temperature did not cool down. we planted it right after last chance of frost early spring. What causes the leaf burn for us since we adapt the fig trees to the sun while in pots first is the hot soil. there was more heat radiating for the soil than from the sun. That is what happens when the sun is full and it's hot enough outside. If you want to put shade cloth than I suggest that you put it on the ground around the tree for like a month. You'd not need to protect it from the sun where you live after it's roots are long enough as long as you water it a lot after hot days. Roots do not grow in hot dry soil. This way the roots grow at night. Also if there are two fig trees right next to each other like I suggested they will shade each other some, and even just one fig tree when it's big enough will shade it's self some when it's full of leaves that is another reason to plant as early in the cool weather as possible, if good strong leaves form well enough soon enough the tree will be much cooler when the heat hits.

The soil where you live can be a great difficulty for most plants, even for fig trees, so you should definitely change the soil like I said yet if you do not dig any deeper than I suggested it should not be too much work.

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
A fig tree should never be planted in summer or in late summer. That always does a major number on the plant and it's leaves early spring is best, right after last chance of frost, yet where you used to live you probably did not have to worry about frost, if so then as soon as 70s are common highs would be the best time there, also I do not know the history of the tree the neighbour planted, if it was not used to full sun already that also would burn the leaves off any warm or hot time of the year. Fig trees need to be adapted to full sun slowly

I just looked it up you are at a mid elevation based up the highest point in Arizona which is Humphrey's Peak. Fig trees do great there. I see nothing written about painting fig trees there, about bark problems on fig trees, I see nothing about needing to shade them there. As long as you plant them as early in the year as you can without them getting hit by frost they should be fine. Fig trees exist in tropical places hotter than California in the summer, and with very bright sun and they do not shade them, and they do not protect their bark. At the most maybe the fig tree will be very stressed out for a few weeks, one of our fig trees planted in 2015 it had major heat stress, it had major leaf burn, the plant would have died if it was not yet adapted to the full sun. I was very worried about it, and weeks later it was one of the strongest growers out of our 6 in ground fig trees even though the temperature did not cool down. we planted it right after last chance of frost early spring. What causes the leaf burn for us since we adapt the fig trees to the sun while in pots first is the hot soil. there was more heat radiating for the soil than from the sun. That is what happens when the sun is full and it's hot enough outside. If you want to put shade cloth than I suggest that you put it on the ground around the tree for like a month. You'd not need to protect it from the sun where you live after it's roots are long enough as long as you water it a lot after hot days. Roots do not grow in hot dry soil. This way the roots grow at night. Also if there are two fig trees right next to each other like I suggested they will shade each other some, and even just one fig tree when it's big enough will shade it's self some when it's full of leaves that is another reason to plant as early in the cool weather as possible, if good strong leaves form well enough soon enough the tree will be much cooler when the heat hits.

Thanks for this interesting research Alan! Keeping the soil cooler and moist makes complete sense. Like the idea of putting shade cloth on the ground over the root zone.

Was hoping to plant mid-May or the first week in June. Could plant earlier if I use a water wall to surround the little fig tree. That's what our neighbor does for her tender tomato plants. Figure if I can get the planting site dug and the retaining wall built, it will be ready to go. I'm also looking around the property to find another good site for a fig, where existing trees provide early winter morning shade...but not at the bottom of the garden where cold winter air will pool.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
Thanks for this interesting research Alan! Keeping the soil cooler and moist makes complete sense. Like the idea of putting shade cloth on the ground over the root zone.

Was hoping to plant mid-May or the first week in June. Could plant earlier if I use a water wall to surround the little fig tree. That's what our neighbor does for her tender tomato plants. Figure if I can get the planting site dug and the retaining wall built, it will be ready to go. I'm also looking around the property to find another good site for a fig, where existing trees provide early winter morning shade...but not at the bottom of the garden where cold winter air will pool.

I think you should plant it in April if the water wall works good, I never heard of one before. If you can I suggest preparing the site(s) this year. That way there's no delay planting if anything unexpected happens. Nice thing about a retaining wall is you can higher it more later if need be so if you need more than two rows for whatever reason then that can be done.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
A neighbor planted a CA grown fig tree 'Brown Turkey' or 'Black Mission' late summer that was suffering leaf burn w/o sun protection. That's where my concern about our intense sun came from.

We're at a 5500ft elevation, so people and plants burn more easily here. Do you think it would be a good idea to paint the sun exposed bark with diluted white latex paint as is done in other hot fruit-growing regions?

Watering late in the day / early evening is an excellent strategy for arid climates. Used to do that in CA since we had a Mediterranean climate (no rain for 6 months).

I just found out that only some fig trees can handle an elevation like yours and have a large sized crop. I also found out that the one that I have been planning to send you has already been proven to grow up to 5,000 feet, I highly doubt that 500 more feet will make a huge difference.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
A neighbor planted a CA grown fig tree 'Brown Turkey' or 'Black Mission' late summer that was suffering leaf burn w/o sun protection. That's where my concern about our intense sun came from.

We're at a 5500ft elevation, so people and plants burn more easily here. Do you think it would be a good idea to paint the sun exposed bark with diluted white latex paint as is done in other hot fruit-growing regions?

Watering late in the day / early evening is an excellent strategy for arid climates. Used to do that in CA since we had a Mediterranean climate (no rain for 6 months).

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
I just found out that only some fig trees can handle an elevation like yours and have a large sized crop. I also found out that the one that I have been planning to send you has already been proven to grow up to 5,000 feet, I highly doubt that 500 more feet will make a huge difference.

Sounds great! Alan ~ Think we're closer to 5000ft since we drive downhill from the highway sign that says 5400ft. (Wish I had a tool to measure elevations accurately.) Have sent off a mixed soil sample from the planting locations for testing. Have my fingers crossed that the results will be encouraging.

I've started to plan fruit tree planting sites. When you plant fig trees in close proximity....HOW close have you planted yours? Does it help with pollination? Figs don't cross pollinate like other fruit trees, do they?

My fruit tree wish list is currently at 20 varieties (with 2-4 different figs). I'm considering purchasing a 'Peter's Honey' like you did recently. Will be planting my first 6-8 trees by the end of this month.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
A neighbor planted a CA grown fig tree 'Brown Turkey' or 'Black Mission' late summer that was suffering leaf burn w/o sun protection. That's where my concern about our intense sun came from.

We're at a 5500ft elevation, so people and plants burn more easily here. Do you think it would be a good idea to paint the sun exposed bark with diluted white latex paint as is done in other hot fruit-growing regions?

Watering late in the day / early evening is an excellent strategy for arid climates. Used to do that in CA since we had a Mediterranean climate (no rain for 6 months).

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
I just found out that only some fig trees can handle an elevation like yours and have a large sized crop. I also found out that the one that I have been planning to send you has already been proven to grow up to 5,000 feet, I highly doubt that 500 more feet will make a huge difference.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
Sounds great! Alan ~ Think we're closer to 5000ft since we drive downhill from the highway sign that says 5400ft. (Wish I had a tool to measure elevations accurately.) Have sent off a mixed soil sample from the planting locations for testing. Have my fingers crossed that the results will be encouraging.

I've started to plan fruit tree planting sites. When you plant fig trees in close proximity....HOW close have you planted yours? Does it help with pollination? Figs don't cross pollinate like other fruit trees, do they?

My fruit tree wish list is currently at 20 varieties (with 2-4 different figs). I'm considering purchasing a 'Peter's Honey' like you did recently. Will be planting my first 6-8 trees by the end of this month.

Certainly keep me updated about the soil test results.

Fig trees are very unique, most varieties available are female and do not require the fig wasp or pollination at all. Just the same some of those female fig trees will have better fruit if pollinated by humans or by the fig wasp, some of them will not, some of them are worst with pollination. I personally think you should not bother with pollinating it's very complicated either way you'd go, and it's something only a true fig collector would want to do/think is worth the effort. As long as you get fig trees varieties that are known for being incredible without the fig wasp then you are not missing out on so much, many serous fig collectors would disagree of course, LOL.

I originally was planning on growing them about 15 feet apart which is what a lot of people do yet I realized that they can be grown about 6 feet apart just fine, and that is a very good thing to do in hot sun like you have helps less sun hit the tree it's self, and the heat is more important than the amount of sunlight hitting each fig leaf, each fig fruit especially in such hot bright sun. Stay away from Ronde De Bordeaux they hate hot sun way more than a lot of other fig trees, and they do not do well at high elevations either. Remember to save a spot for Lily's fig, in case it can handle a climate like ours. Not sure about the elevation though since it's an known. Peter's Honey can certainly handle the hot sun up there, hopefully it can handle the elevation. I'd like to help you get varieties, I can not only help you save money, also get better varieties. also keep count, Aldo (I will be giving you), Peter's Honey, Lily's fig, and one other if you get 4. If Lily's fig would not like your climate we could always make sure that you get something else in place of it.

I learned recently buying fig trees small they turn in to more healthy trees than if you buy them big, and fig trees produce so young anyway there is no point in getting them big in my opinion. They can easily grow in to a 4 to 7 foot tree in one season from a tiny to small sized tree, you'd be surprised how tiny or small.

PS make sure that when planting them there is space to pick the fruit. some people plant them and pomegranates all in a row to make sure that happens, otherwise they have to be planted carefully to give room for planting. Fig trees will grow longer one way than another, growing towards the sun, avoiding growing towards the shade. Make sure that their end sides are facing each other if you plant them in a row.

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
I just found out that only some fig trees can handle an elevation like yours and have a large sized crop. I also found out that the one that I have been planning to send you has already been proven to grow up to 5,000 feet, I highly doubt that 500 more feet will make a huge difference.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
Sounds great! Alan ~ Think we're closer to 5000ft since we drive downhill from the highway sign that says 5400ft. (Wish I had a tool to measure elevations accurately.) Have sent off a mixed soil sample from the planting locations for testing. Have my fingers crossed that the results will be encouraging.

I've started to plan fruit tree planting sites. When you plant fig trees in close proximity....HOW close have you planted yours? Does it help with pollination? Figs don't cross pollinate like other fruit trees, do they?

My fruit tree wish list is currently at 20 varieties (with 2-4 different figs). I'm considering purchasing a 'Peter's Honey' like you did recently. Will be planting my first 6-8 trees by the end of this month.

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
Certainly keep me updated about the soil test results.

Fig trees are very unique, most varieties available are female and do not require the fig wasp or pollination at all. Just the same some of those female fig trees will have better fruit if pollinated by humans or by the fig wasp, some of them will not, some of them are worst with pollination. I personally think you should not bother with pollinating it's very complicated either way you'd go, and it's something only a true fig collector would want to do/think is worth the effort. As long as you get fig trees varieties that are known for being incredible without the fig wasp then you are not missing out on so much, many serous fig collectors would disagree of course, LOL.

I originally was planning on growing them about 15 feet apart which is what a lot of people do yet I realized that they can be grown about 6 feet apart just fine, and that is a very good thing to do in hot sun like you have helps less sun hit the tree it's self, and the heat is more important than the amount of sunlight hitting each fig leaf, each fig fruit especially in such hot bright sun. Stay away from Ronde De Bordeaux they hate hot sun way more than a lot of other fig trees, and they do not do well at high elevations either. Remember to save a spot for Lily's fig, in case it can handle a climate like ours. Not sure about the elevation though since it's an known. Peter's Honey can certainly handle the hot sun up there, hopefully it can handle the elevation. I'd like to help you get varieties, I can not only help you save money, also get better varieties. also keep count, Aldo (I will be giving you), Peter's Honey, Lily's fig, and one other if you get 4. If Lily's fig would not like your climate we could always make sure that you get something else in place of it.

I learned recently buying fig trees small they turn in to more healthy trees than if you buy them big, and fig trees produce so young anyway there is no point in getting them big in my opinion. They can easily grow in to a 4 to 7 foot tree in one season from a tiny to small sized tree, you'd be surprised how tiny or small.

PS make sure that when planting them there is space to pick the fruit. some people plant them and pomegranates all in a row to make sure that happens, otherwise they have to be planted carefully to give room for planting. Fig trees will grow longer one way than another, growing towards the sun, avoiding growing towards the shade. Make sure that their end sides are facing each other if you plant them in a row.

I'll wait for fig trees from you then, Alan.

Will be busy enough planning for other types of fruit trees. Am learning interesting info like apricots & peaches break dormancy easily and need to be planted areas shaded in the winter to keep them 'asleep' until our variable spring weather is consistently warm. So I'm walking around the property figuring out where to plant them...

Do you think full hot afternoon sun combined with heat & light reflected off a pale brick wall will be too much for the figs? Might they do better with dappled light from taller trees in our hottest months or shall I just be prepared to water well with a good mulch?

We're having a California spring-like warm spell this week and next. High temperatures nearing 70F with lows above freezing. This is exactly the sort of weather that wreaks havoc with fruit trees if it's followed by freezing temperatures in MAR-MAY. It's lovely for working on the property though!

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
I just found out that only some fig trees can handle an elevation like yours and have a large sized crop. I also found out that the one that I have been planning to send you has already been proven to grow up to 5,000 feet, I highly doubt that 500 more feet will make a huge difference.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
Sounds great! Alan ~ Think we're closer to 5000ft since we drive downhill from the highway sign that says 5400ft. (Wish I had a tool to measure elevations accurately.) Have sent off a mixed soil sample from the planting locations for testing. Have my fingers crossed that the results will be encouraging.

I've started to plan fruit tree planting sites. When you plant fig trees in close proximity....HOW close have you planted yours? Does it help with pollination? Figs don't cross pollinate like other fruit trees, do they?

My fruit tree wish list is currently at 20 varieties (with 2-4 different figs). I'm considering purchasing a 'Peter's Honey' like you did recently. Will be planting my first 6-8 trees by the end of this month.

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
Certainly keep me updated about the soil test results.

Fig trees are very unique, most varieties available are female and do not require the fig wasp or pollination at all. Just the same some of those female fig trees will have better fruit if pollinated by humans or by the fig wasp, some of them will not, some of them are worst with pollination. I personally think you should not bother with pollinating it's very complicated either way you'd go, and it's something only a true fig collector would want to do/think is worth the effort. As long as you get fig trees varieties that are known for being incredible without the fig wasp then you are not missing out on so much, many serous fig collectors would disagree of course, LOL.

I originally was planning on growing them about 15 feet apart which is what a lot of people do yet I realized that they can be grown about 6 feet apart just fine, and that is a very good thing to do in hot sun like you have helps less sun hit the tree it's self, and the heat is more important than the amount of sunlight hitting each fig leaf, each fig fruit especially in such hot bright sun. Stay away from Ronde De Bordeaux they hate hot sun way more than a lot of other fig trees, and they do not do well at high elevations either. Remember to save a spot for Lily's fig, in case it can handle a climate like ours. Not sure about the elevation though since it's an known. Peter's Honey can certainly handle the hot sun up there, hopefully it can handle the elevation. I'd like to help you get varieties, I can not only help you save money, also get better varieties. also keep count, Aldo (I will be giving you), Peter's Honey, Lily's fig, and one other if you get 4. If Lily's fig would not like your climate we could always make sure that you get something else in place of it.

I learned recently buying fig trees small they turn in to more healthy trees than if you buy them big, and fig trees produce so young anyway there is no point in getting them big in my opinion. They can easily grow in to a 4 to 7 foot tree in one season from a tiny to small sized tree, you'd be surprised how tiny or small.

PS make sure that when planting them there is space to pick the fruit. some people plant them and pomegranates all in a row to make sure that happens, otherwise they have to be planted carefully to give room for planting. Fig trees will grow longer one way than another, growing towards the sun, avoiding growing towards the shade. Make sure that their end sides are facing each other if you plant them in a row.

CyntheB wrote: ↑
I'll wait for fig trees from you then, Alan.

Will be busy enough planning for other types of fruit trees. Am learning interesting info like apricots & peaches break dormancy easily and need to be planted areas shaded in the winter to keep them 'asleep' until our variable spring weather is consistently warm. So I'm walking around the property figuring out where to plant them...

Do you think full hot afternoon sun combined with heat & light reflected off a pale brick wall will be too much for the figs? Might they do better with dappled light from taller trees in our hottest months or shall I just be prepared to water well with a good mulch?

We're having a California spring-like warm spell this week and next. High temperatures nearing 70F with lows above freezing. This is exactly the sort of weather that wreaks havoc with fruit trees if it's followed by freezing temperatures in MAR-MAY. It's lovely for working on the property though!

I think you should do as I suggested earlier, use the gravel for mulch and for winter protection after adding composted cow manure. Anything that can grow at such a high elevation can handle the full sun, yet the hot afternoon sun does stress them out some especially the heat in the soil from the hot bright sun, they only need shade from the end once they get strong enough, usually within 1 season they are strong enough, shade cloth would do until they can handle the heat better. Fig trees actually handle frost with buds very well as long as it's not too extreme especially when they are old enough, and many of them still can produce a large crop after such a freeze. We had that last spring, this fall and this winter actually. One of our fig trees that we've had in the ground for almost 5 years it still has green buds with almost no damage in them after they were hit by a frost of about 16 degrees Fahrenheit, and temperatures below freezing for over a week straight. It's in direct sun in the morning, yet keep in mind it has a lot of composted cow manure above the roots and all the gravel, and on top of that a lot of hay. We have one that was put in ground in the spring doing almost as well, no gravel, no compost, not in the early morning sun yet has hay. If you go look at the recent topic I made of that you will see what I am talking about better. Fig trees tell you when they need watering. If their leaves are drooping extremely then after the sun goes down so that the sun does not heat the water, give them a good watering. You will find they will not always need that on a very hot day especially when they are strong enough.

alanmercieca wrote: ↑
I originally was planning on growing them about 15 feet apart which is what a lot of people do yet I realized that they can be grown about 6 feet apart just fine, and that is a very good thing to do in hot sun like you have helps less sun hit the tree it's self, and the heat is more important than the amount of sunlight hitting each fig leaf, each fig fruit especially in such hot bright sun...

I learned recently buying fig trees small they turn in to more healthy trees than if you buy them big, and fig trees produce so young anyway there is no point in getting them big in my opinion. They can easily grow in to a 4 to 7 foot tree in one season from a tiny to small sized tree, you'd be surprised how tiny or small.

I think you should do as I suggested earlier, use the gravel for mulch and for winter protection after adding composted cow manure. Anything that can grow at such a high elevation can handle the full sun, yet the hot afternoon sun does stress them out some especially the heat in the soil from the hot bright sun, they only need shade from the end once they get strong enough, usually within 1 season they are strong enough, shade cloth would do until they can handle the heat better.

Fig trees actually handle frost with buds very well as long as it's not too extreme especially when they are old enough, and many of them still can produce a large crop after such a freeze. We had that last spring, this fall and this winter actually. One of our fig trees that we've had in the ground for almost 5 years it still has green buds with almost no damage in them after they were hit by a frost of about 16 degrees Fahrenheit, and temperatures below freezing for over a week straight. It's in direct sun in the morning, yet keep in mind it has a lot of composted cow manure above the roots and all the gravel, and on top of that a lot of hay. We have one that was put in ground in the spring doing almost as well, no gravel, no compost, not in the early morning sun yet has hay. If you go look at the recent topic I made of that you will see what I am talking about better. Fig trees tell you when they need watering. If their leaves are drooping extremely then after the sun goes down so that the sun does not heat the water, give them a good watering. You will find they will not always need that on a very hot day especially when they are strong enough.

Okay. I'll make the planting beds. I've been keeping notes on all of your excellent suggestions.